I recently purchased the book Hackers and Painters, a collection of essays written by Y Combinator co-founder Paul Graham.
The first chapter,‘Why nerds are unpopular,’ is probably the single, most cogent analysis I have ever read on the social hierarchy of middle and high schools across America (although, as I will point out later, this is definitely not unique to the United States).
Paul’s experiences mostly correlate with American ’suburbia,’ and as my high school — located in Central Pennsylvania — is actually a short trip away from his, I can’t imagine the two are entirely different.
While many have posted responses that both affirm and challenge Paul’s experiences, I decided, however, to take a different approach with my reflection on his essay; instead drawing out some of the more pertinent points, and applying them to the Black Nerd culture.
I know a lot of people who were nerds in school, and they all tell the same story: there is a strong correlation between being smart and being a nerd, and an even stronger inverse correlation between being a nerd and being popular. Being smart seems to make you unpopular…in a typical American secondary school, being smart is likely to make your life difficult. Why?
I would say, as a young black male, there is a strong inverse correlation between being a nerd and black, and being popular. I’ve seen many black friends who are fairly intelligent that were mediocre students in high school, and either failed out or were equally mediocre at the University level. Why? Popularity is, as Paul mentions, often times a choice of priorities — some sacrifice intelligence for popularity — and for blacks, this probably happens for 9 out of every 10.
Despite our different sets of diagnostics to accurately peg intelligence, the term is generally ambiguous, but at least on the Paul Graham scale of smart, I would put myself on the lower end of the super nerds. I was a National Merit scholar, easily figured out how to beat the standardized tests (don’t we all), and in the military scored a perfect score on the ASVAB, the Armed Force’s versions of the SATs, and twice was offered appointments to West Point, the US military academy. Intelligent, but by no means one of the brightest of the people I’ve met — I’m not even the smartest in my own family.
But my intelligence didn’t make me popular, in fact, in the black sub-culture of my high school and town, any sign of great intelligence is to be avoided like the plague.
So if intelligence in itself is not a factor in popularity, why are smart kids so consistently unpopular? The answer, I think, is that they don’t really want to be popular…But in fact I didn’t, not enough. There was something else I wanted more: to be smart. Nerds serve two masters. They want to be popular, certainly, but they want even more to be smart. And popularity is not something you can do in your spare time, not in the fiercely competitive environment of an American secondary school.
In the black culture, popularity may be even more important than in the typical American secondary school that Paul describes. I would say this is due to numbers — because black people are so few in comparison, the number of popular ’spots’ available, greatly declines, and there is little to no chance of slipping through the cracks unnoticed, blending in, as there might be at a typical suburban American high school. In a white school, a black will stick out obviously for the color of their skin, and even in an urban, pre-dominantly black school there is a higher degree of emphasis based on popularity than their white counterparts.
For blacks, it goes above and beyond just clothes — sneakers (Air Force ones, Jordans, etc.), jewelry, hairstyle, shape ups, belt buckles, chains, tattoos, diamond studs, do rags, fitted caps — which makes popularity that much more exclusive and more difficult to attain. If you ever watch a black family (and this holds trues from Latinos whom I’ve spent time with as well) they spend much more time worrying about the material and outwardly appearance — driving the right car, clothes, accessories, hair, etc. Paul alludes several times throughout the essay (and indeed, in his response, ‘Re: Why Nerds are Unpopular’) that these experiences are more present in American high schools, but I would beg to differ.
My dad, born and raised in Nigeria, once told me a story. When he was growing up, his family was poor, really poor. So poor, in fact, that he did not receive his first pair of sandals until he was 14-years-old, which, ‘even’ by Nigerian standards signifies near abject poverty. He missed more than a few years of school working on farms in order to raise money just to complete high school. The schools, still adhering to the British system, enforced a uniform dress code. My father’s family only had enough money for him to own one uniform, which he wore day in and day out for an entire school year. With a bit of wear and tear, he developed a hole in the bottom of his school shorts roughly two hands across.
Needless to say, not only was my father not popular in high school, but he was, of course, picked on for not having adequate clothing. One would think that in a uniformed high school society, such as an Anglican school like my father’s, the dress code would make clothes less important, but I’ve actually found the inverse to be true. In travels to Jamaica, Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, Peru, Nigeria, Kenya, and the Bahamas, I’ve seen the school clothing emphasis devolve into belt buckles, shoes, jewelry, hairstyles, tattoo, headgear, etc. The dress code is only a pretense at uniformity, kids will just spend several hundreds of dollar on accessories instead of clothes.
My grandfather gave my dad a piece of advice: ‘Don’t waste your time chasing girls, just focus on your studies, score high marks and when you are successful, the girls will come chasing after you.’ Sure enough, when he aced the West African Senior School Certificate Examination (WASSCE), scoring what was thought to be the highest mark in the entire region, he was offered full scholarships … and the girls came chasing.
So even in some countries outside the US (and I could give more examples), being popular and being intelligent are usually mutually exclusive, and popularity is just as important and time-consuming as it is in America.
The popular kids learned to be popular, and to want to be popular, the same way the nerds learned to be smart, and to want to be smart: from their parents. While the nerds were being trained to get the right answers, the popular kids were being trained to please.
An interesting phenomenon I’ve witnessed in the lives of my black friends, is that their parents give much lip service to the importance of education, graduating from high school, college, and graduate school, yet they do not reinforce this with their actions. The black kids who are trying to be popular did indeed learn it from their parents (or older siblings, who themselves learned it from their parents). One of my best friends’ dad takes him shopping one or two times a month — shoes, clothes, suits, accessories — he wants to make sure his son is dressed to impress.
I’ve never once seen his dad invest in a book, or some other apparatus that would lend itself to learning — yet his dad will claim with his words that education is the most important thing for a young black male. While I have not grown up with this particular kid since childhood, it’s hard for me to imagine he was reading books, playing with flash cards, or engaging in other educational experiences at an early age. Most likely he was given the hottest action figure toys, sat down in front of a TV, and dressed up to be a handsome little tyke.
In fact, he, like most of my black friends, looks at me askance whenever I talk about reading books. You might think that reading were an incurable virus from the way they look at me with a book in my hand.
This would seem to reinforce an article that appeared in the Atlantic Monthly comparing consumption expenses of blacks and whites.
On race, the folk wisdom turns out to be true. An African American family with the same income, family size, and other demographics as a white family will spend about 25 percent more of its income on jewelry, cars, personal care, and apparel. For the average black family, making about $40,000 a year, that amounts to $1,900 more a year than for a comparable white family. To make up the difference, African Americans spend much less on education, health care, entertainment, and home furnishings. (The same is true of Latinos.)
For my family, however, it has been a different story. When my dad was growing up, there was a keen emphasis on perfection in education. If he scored a 99 on an exam, his father would not congratulate him, instead ask him why he was lazy and missed the last point. He was however, the first and only of 10 siblings to graduate from high school, subsequently university, all the way through Ph.D. While my dad was not that stringent and overly-concerned about 1 grade point with his own sons and daughters, both parents have made it absolutely clear my whole life that high marks in school is top priority. My older brother and sister taught me to read when I was very little, and we didn’t play with action figures or watch Barney, we read books, practiced flash cards, and did word problems with my dad. For my next door neighbors, also Africans, they never owned a video game system, didn’t watch much TV, while instead were encouraged to do mathematics, science, and reading from an early age — as both hobby and school.
Few smart kids can spare the attention that popularity requires. Unless they also happen to be good-looking, natural athletes, or siblings of popular kids, they’ll tend to become nerds.
Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on how you look at it) this is where my path diverges somewhat from Paul’s. While I wouldn’t consider myself to be possessed with a movie star-like appearance (and I wasn’t the sibling of popular kids), I was what many would call a ‘natural athlete.’ Personally, I detest the term natural athlete, as it implies, as Paul refers to in his comment about drawing, that it is something innate, that I was born with, upon which I have nothing to improve. Conversely, I have spent hundreds of hours honing my skills and abilities in various sports, and was fortunately able to draw fruit from my labor while still in high school.
For example, most people seem to consider the ability to draw as some kind of innate quality, like being tall. In fact, most people who “can draw” like drawing, and have spent many hours doing it; that’s why they’re good at it. Likewise, popular isn’t just something you are or you aren’t, but something you make yourself.
My athletic prowess, looking back on my high school years now, was probably one of the few things that allowed me to attain a fair measure of popularity. As a junior I started on the varsity football team, and, even though a grade ahead and therefore a year younger than most of my comrades, I anchored my high school relay team to one of the fastest times in the nation, for which we were recognized as National High School All Americans. I was even lucky enough to get recruited by some Division I schools for athletics.
That, however, was high school. As Paul writes, the worst stretch for most kids is junior high, somewhere between eleven and fourteen years of age. And so it was for me as well.
Because I didn’t fit into this world, I thought that something must be wrong with me. I didn’t realize that the reason we nerds didn’t fit in was that in some ways we were a step ahead. We were already thinking about the kind of things that matter in the real world, instead of spending all our time playing an exacting but mostly pointless game like the others.
This, too, could be said about black nerds. We’ve been trained by our parents — or come to the realization ourselves– that the current system is severely broken, and we’re merely biding our time, working the system, while not focused on our immediate surroundings (popularity) but rather on future gain (learning from other really smart people and/or most likely figuring things out on our on.)
Life in this twisted world is stressful for the kids. And not just for the nerds. Like any war, it’s damaging even to the winners.
Very much so (damaging) to the black, non-nerd counterparts I know. Sure, some of them will become professional athletes, although only one or two I know, and neither success nor happiness in life is determined by one’s intelligence,however, of what I witnessed, mediocrity is a shell that few break out of.
Many of the popular kids, having sacrificed learning and building on their intelligent nature, are set back for years, from which many never catch up. What Paul doesn’t mention, is how the emphasis on popularity can be cyclical — if the desire to be popular, or conversely intelligent, is mostly learned from one’s parents, than logically if you weren’t a nerd than your kids won’t be either, and this is what I’ve seen amongst my black friends.
Realistically, I should have used the term ‘African nerds,’ because almost all of the smartest black people I know were either born in Africa or are first-generation Africans. On my neighborhood street alone, there were 8 black kids — all first generation African — and between us eight, 5 or 6 of us were National Merit scholars, two went to MIT for computer science, one to U Chicago, four others offered full scholarships to a number of universities across the country, and one even got a perfect score on her SATs, the only one to do so from my high school in recent years (that I”m aware of at least.) Between our four parents, three have attained a Ph.D in their respective fields.Keep in mind there were maybe 50 to 60 blacks in a graduating class of about 650, in a high school that has roughly 2800 people.
I’d like to think that there are black nerds whose families have been raised in the US generation after generation, but personally, I just don’t know of many. The only other black girl in my graduating class that was fairly intelligent — a nerd — was also first-generation American, although her parents were from Jamaica. Even that one guy running for President is a first-generation black nerd. This isn’t to say that aren’t many generational black Americans in the US, I just haven’t come across many –from Camden to Baltimore, and Colorado to Pennsylvania.
I would go so far as to say that the lack of black nerds is probably a cause for major concern, but within the scope of this writing, possibly too large a problem to properly address, although certainly an interesting one.
Logically, this discussion might lead to the question ‘Where are all the Black Entrepreneurs?,’ but I think that’s better left for another day.
(Some interesting discussion on Reddit and Hacker News).
Thank you for your insight and for sharing your childhood experiences. Your writing style is clear and personal, making your work a pleasure to read. As a middle-class White nerd, exposure to personal expressions of the poor Black nerd experience are broadening and enriching.
What are your thoughts on the role of religion in Black nerd development? I noticed that you have Missionary as a previous role in your “Who I am” page, and yet there were no mentions of it in this post.
Aaron, I wouldn’t go so far to say that this is the experience of a ‘poor Black nerd.’ My father was raised in poverty, I, like yourself, was raised middle-class.
I’m not sure I see any correlation between religion and becoming a nerd, black or otherwise. My father was not a Christian until sometime after attaining his Ph.D, so arguably, at least in his case, it had no effect whatsoever in his development as a nerd. Also, from what I understand, both parents and children in my neighbors’ family are agnostic.
Well said. As a black nerd from Jamaica, I know exactly what you’re talking about. I’m at a friend’s house now, when I get home I’ll reply more.
This is a fascinating entry, truly, but I think you’ve answered the question yourself here:
“…in the black sub-culture of my high school and town, any sign of great intelligence is to be avoided like the plague.”
There you go. That’s precisely why.
I think you’re asking the wrong question – not why are black nerds unpopular, but rather, why does the black subculture avoid intelligence and/or achievement?
Michael, I actually meant to write ‘Why Black Nerds are unpopular.’ I’m not really asking a question here, and even in the current context, it’s a bit rhetorical.
I definitely have some interesting ideas on why black subculture avoids intelligence, which I think I’ll write about later. The two, however, are closely related, I just didn’t go beneath the surface much.
I am an American black nerd from the suburbs of Philadelphia. I don’t know of any nerds in my ancestral lineage (not to say that there were none).
I’ve been in all kinds of schools as far as racial distribution is concerned. I’ve been in schools where I was one of 4 blacks in an otherwise 99%-white private school, an all-black private school, and racially-diverse public schools.
I would say that your observations of American blacks is pretty accurate. To most American blacks, you are nerdy if you only do well in school. So if doing homework and taking tests and learning scholastic subjects comes easily to you, you are a nerd in their eyes, even if you don’t exhibit a lot of other nerdy characteristics. This, combined with the American black societal pressure to be cool and popular, leaves little hope that those raised in that kind of environment will produce nerds.
I may have to blog about this myself. Thank you for writing this article.
Great post. I often thought about this and you communicated it very well. I met a close friend who came from Ethiopia and he, and a lot of other Africans (born) I went on to meet, are some very intelligent and genuinely nice people.
They too get caught up in the sub-culture, spending money they don’t have on clothing and accessories. But they are still grounded to reality.
In the schools I grew up in it was cool to be black and almost none I knew excelled in school. They were focused on being popular, even more so then the wealthier white kids. So I agree with pretty much everything you said.
Excellent entry, thanks for writing it. I don’t really have anything to add, except to encourage you to keep writing these kinds of posts.
A Very Enlightening read. It would be really good if the school system were changed in such a way that intelligence (esp. nerdiness) was the key criteria for popularity. For example, writing cool programs or solving hard math problem makes you famous. Then we would have lot more scientists (thus the pace of human development would increase).
@MJ1531 thanks for your insight, as I mention elsewhere, I only have limited experiences from which to draw, and although certainly not pleasing to know this happens everywhere, interesting to hear your confirmation.
@dmix did you learn any Amharic?
@Michael Graham Richard , I’ll try to write a few more like these. Exploring cultures, specifically black/African is something particularly interesting to me, and I’m glad this struck a chord with some.
@Nigel, we might have a lot more scientists that way. From the studies I’ve read, most of the STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics) degrees in the US are earned by international students.
David, thanks for replying to my post and clarifying. I’ve subscribed to your rss feed and look forward to reading more from you!
Perhaps I’m not qualified to comment here, being a white guy, but I can say that you can definitely be both popular and geeky in high school and later. It’s just a balance. For every website I made in high school or advanced class I was in, I kicked someone’s ass to back a friend up or got with a sexy girl, and the net result was that I had a rep as a popular guy who was also very smart.
It’s when you willfully neglect the other important things (girls, having fun with sports, etc.) that you’ll be ostracized. I come from a very diverse area, and my school was not majority white. It was a very even balance between white, black, hispanic, south Asian, east Asian, etc. (DC area).
One thing to note is that I have always been the rebellious intellectual type, so the fact that I pissed off my teachers all the time and got mediocre grades probably helped matters socially. I always have had a great disdain for school. But letters on a report card never meant much to me, and never affected my later success. Transferring into a good college was easy, and getting a good career after leaving that college was just as easy, being a smart nerd.
I think the thing about so-called “nerds” which makes them often unpopular is that they appear to be very conformist in school, always abiding by what the teacher says and putting grades first. A meek personality will never do much for your popularity.
Boy have YOU corroborated some of my long-held beliefs!
I practically NEVER run into an “African-American” person with any brains. Conversely, I practically NEVER run into a real African who isn’t intellectually superb. It really makes me wonder… did we import all the stupid Africans over here during the slavery era? (I’ve heard Africans actually say that – “We sent you all the bad people” (!!).)
The way American black culture devalues intelligence and education is an absolute atrocity. American black people who speak out against it are harassed and excoriated. It’s almost as though American blacks WANT to remain marginalized and underprivileged. I’ve seen at least one case of African parents here in America who sent their kids back to Africa to go to high school, because of the malign influence of American blacks on their kids!
The whole subject just infuriates me… During the 1960’s it looked like we had a chance at real racial integration. Now it looks like we’ll be living with black/white Balkanization forever – and in no small measure because American black people seem to WANT it that way!!
In response to this:
“On race, the folk wisdom turns out to be true. An African American family with the same income, family size, and other demographics as a white family will spend about 25 percent more of its income on jewelry, cars, personal care, and apparel.”
I would encourage you to take a moment to read this:
http://www.slate.com/id/2181822/pagenum/all/
It is a summary of an economist’s study on why this is so. It will involve reading, but apparently you’re all super nerds and enjoy reading, so please take a moment to do so.
In short, the article is on signal goods and the ways in which being surrounded by those economically similar tends to raise the chance of spending on signal goods. It turns out that Blacks in America are much more likely to live in neighborhoods where the variance in wealth is small, while Whites are not. This alone apparently accounts for differences in spending patterns. As is often the case when one generates statistics, it turns out that the key is to pick the right variables to condition on.
Peace.
Hi there. A really interesting story, but so common as well.
Speaking from my own experience (or rather observations) the thing about popularity vs nerdiness, comes down to personal issues in quite a few cases. Popularity usually means being accepted in a given group, and as humans are social animals, sense of belonging for some is the prime source of concern. They seem to overvalue the ‘right-here-right-now’ approach, which is so prevalent amongst mostly angsty teenage kids.
It really takes guts to do your own thing, especially if it is of intellectual nature.
On the matter of blings and fashion – overdressing and wearing the hippest accessories is a sort of self-stigmatisation (which the wearer does not perceive that way, but explanation follows below). Most poor people try to show that they have money/assets and can afford the affluent life style, usually associated with upper-mid class. Basically, whatever culture you would like to scrutinise, you will see that it is the lower strata of society that spends proportionally most of their income on expensive clothes, belt buckles, chains etc; people who can afford this sort of stuff, generally don’t care. This also ties with general perception of society, i.e. how rich a given society is, but then it is applied in inverse to an average individual – i.e. the richer the society in general the less people care about showing off their status, hence a lot of kids in UK or US don’t have a sense of stylishness (or generally don’t care) whereas if you look at EU, the more to the east you go, the more overdressed the people are (esp in the up to 25 yr olds group in former Soviet block countries).
Coming back to the article, unfortunately, the latinos and blacks usually are the groups most affected by poverty hence the need to prove the contrary is more prevalent. (there was a link on Hacker News to a social study that looked into this more in depth, a few weeks ago).
And conclusion – being angsty, and ‘having something to prove’ attitude results in youngsters obsessed with overdressing and being cool. No matter if you look at Moscow or New York – it is the poverty that the kids detest, and the poor behave in similar vein no matter where they live.
(Hope you all enjoyed this rather lengthy rant, and kudos to the author for not giving in! More power to you!)
“Realistically, I should have used the term ‘African nerds,’ because almost all of the smartest black people I know were either born in Africa or are first-generation Africans.”
I lived and studied in Southern Africa (O and A Levels) for a considerable period of time, I too have noticed this pattern in the US. Emphasis, valuation, and *meaningful* action on matters educational by parents *and* the community appears to be a telling factor.
The generational decay of “parental values” is visible in some Asian communities too. The decay seems faster in African communities though (no evidence, just observational). I think it is tied to how easily the first/second generation integrates with their new environment (or how quickly they melt into the melting pot – boiling (down) to the average)
Thanks for writing about something I always thought about.
“Don’t waste your time chasing girls, just focus on your studies, score high marks and when you are successful, the girls will come chasing after you.”
lol. This is exactly what my Indian (India as in the `country`) parents told me
I still haven’t managed to meet a well-educated Black person yet. But that’s probably because I’ve spent most of my time in Asia so far.
I’m a Chinese-Filipino born in the Philippines and migrated to the US when I was 8. I can definitely say that being smart = popularity in the short time I was there (friends I left can attest the same during their high school years).
Both my Chinese and Filipino heritage espoused education and most (if not all) of my friends fit the same mold.
I grew up in the US public school system and the biggest difference I felt, especially during the 8th grade was to “fit in”. I was your prototypical geek – glasses, no friends, shy.
I only knew of other newly migrated Asians and we all had similar experiences – picked on for being “smart”, studying too hard, applied to top schools, etc. I didn’t have similar experiences to >= 2nd generation Asians so I can’t say if the pressure to study (i.e. trying to be popular as not primary) applied as well.
An interesting question: Do 2nd generation immigrants change and become “Americanized” and thus lose “nerdiness”?
Gotta love someone selling out their own race. People are stupid equally pretty much everywhere, they just embody this stupidity in different ways. We’ve got Booker T. wishing he were white (@Merinas van der Lubbe) and a blogger who just couldn’t fit in with the kids he grew up with. Unclo Tom fools.
Really interesting post!
Even though I’m not living in America (never has, don’t know if I ever will either) I really enjoyed reading this. Maybe I shouldn’t say “even though..”, but “Because..”.
Here in Sweden there aren’t many black people, and very many of the young black you meet are adopted (and therefore often raised just like any other Swedish kid, which is why they usually turn out like a typical swede). After the war in former Yugoslavia we’ve got a lot of people from Serbia, Kosovo and Albania over here, and I’d say they remind me very much of the black americans you’re talking about.
I think you are really hitting on something here. I’m a hardcore black nerd myself and I’m “African-American.” I think family plays a big role in being a nerd or being popular. My Uncle is an engineer and as such my parents figured me to be one when I first tried to take apart things. So from an early age I was raised to pretty much be a nerd and therefore being one seemed pretty normal. But not all Blacks (or Americans for that matter) get to experience the same kind of upbringing which could explain why otherwise intelligent kids choose not to focus on being nerdy.
The post by Merinas van der Lubbe seemed a bit caustic at first, but after reading it again, I find that I agree with just about all his points.
With respect to the general undervaluing of education by African Americans, I believe the problem lies in the lack of social capital. Without being too academic about it, my definition of social capital is the possession of the knowledge of how to succeed. Many times, I see doctors’ children become doctors and engineers’ children become engineers. These children follow that career path starting in high school basically, because their parents can teach them how to navigate it, which tests to study for, which forms to fill out, etc. Most importantly, they know for a fact that in order to succeed, one must follow a process that involves years and years of active learning and academic vigilance. This is what davidadewumi was talking about. The knowledge that ‘process A leads to point B’ is something I believe many African American families don’t yet possess. davidadewumi’s father had such capital and imbued it upon his son, who will give it to his son/daughter, and so on.
Ok, let me kill this discussion that there are no smart, non-immigrant black people in the US. Of course this broad stereotype is rubbish and anyone who would perpetuate it is an idiot of extreme proportions. I am a 5th generation black American and would wholly fit the description of someone you would call a “black nerd”.
I attended Georgia Tech on a full academic scholarship and majored in Computer Science. I graduated with a 4.0 GPA and now work as a software engineer at one of the most successful tech companies in the world. There is another “black nerd” on my team who also fits this description as well as many others within the company.
I do realize that there is a very serious perception problem in the black community concerning education. I know that all too well after being ridiculed growing up for being a nerd and “acting white” just because I loved reading and learning. However spewing false stereotypes is not going to make the problem any less prevalent.
This problem has to be solved from the bottom up. If black parents truly want their children to succeed then we have to take a cold hard look at our value system.
I’ll just throw some guesses out there. People don’t like smarts because there is that stereotypical stigma attached, and (this is a big stretch) people fear the unknown and are wary of those that are ‘better’ than them, which leads to people with more knowledge being unpopular.
When you think about the entire animal kingdom in general, beauty and brawn are both heavily favored over brains when it comes to being able to procreate and carry on the genetic line. So it’s probably hard-wired in humans and we don’t realize it.
Kids are immature by definition (implying an undeveloped personality), and while they keep maturing and learning during school as to what is normal in society, they are imprinted with stereotypes, coerced into being what they perceive as good, and by the time they finish maturing their personality is set in stone.
As a matter of fact, it’s interesting to notice that here in France, young people from african or arab origins have this very same attitude toward school, books and intelligence on one hand, and this same focus on apparence and accessories on the other hand.
Excellent article, David, and well written too. I find this whole subject very interesting. I’ve always been a big nerd, but I guess I’ve been lucky with friends, and being “popular”. On the flip side, maybe it’s just a Canadian thing…up here, nerdy is starting to become cool, or at least accepted.
Throughout elementary school, I was a nerd. 90%+ on my report card in most subjects. I’d take time out of class to help out in the computer lab and teach other kids how to use the computers. I was on the school web team. I was a nerd. But I had lots of friends. I knew everyone in my grade, and I went to all the “cool” birthday parties.
For high school, I was bussed to another city 45 minutes away to attend a special program…International Business and Technology, which was a program full of nerds. It was probably the best experience that a nerd could have in high school. There was an obvious racial change compared to my elementary school though. 80% of the students were Middle Eastern/Indian (most of which were the children of 1st or 2nd generation Canadians). The rest were made up of a mix of white/Asian kids. In my year, there were 3 black kids, and that’s it. I never really gave though about the racial makeup of my high school until reading your article here. It is a very interesting subject.
My hope is that something happens soon so that being a “nerd” will become more and more accepted, otherwise, we could be in trouble in the years to come as intelligence depreciates. This world will not be a fun place to live when everyone is barely smart enough to work at McDonalds.
It is strange. I grew up in Africa (Zimbabwe to be precise) and in the environment in which I grew up, demonstrating intelligence garnered respect. I would say it showed one had a unique attribute which set the individual apart – a show of superiority.
Historically in Africa being educated was a passport to a better life as David mentioned, and so culturally had great value. The ‘nerd’ was seen as a master of this process and so gained local celebrity. Consider that not a few well-known (some now notorious) African leaders started off with a reputation of excellence in education becoming lawyers, doctors and educators. And so even power was linked with intelligence.
I should qualify that intelligence in this context refers not merely to being educated but having a thirst for knowledge and having/sharing ideas. The nerd by my definition is then ‘a lover of knowledge’ i.e. not similar but separate from a ‘geek’ who tends to be socially negligent (thank you Anon!)
I have lived in the United Kingdom for the last five years and was initially dismayed by the casual disregard my brothers here have for these attributes. I even felt strongly that should I have kids here they would be swiftly shipped back to Africa to be properly inculcated with the values I grew up with.
However I have moderated my opinions over time. Why? The realization that popularity is merely alignment with the social norm. Nerd-ness is not mutually exclusive to demonstrating social value. It does not even have to conflict if a kid is deliberately taught right. There was the reference to Obama. It could be interesting how that develops as more black leaders emerge to the spotlight who are suave, popular and ‘inclined to nerd-ness.’
so many people with so much intellect and yet they still pick a small sample group to pass judgement on black people and what they believe “black subculture” is.
I could argue that there is a white subculture of ego driven macho posturing. But hey then I would be just as stupid.
I think you can generalize this to “parents who don’t emphasize education have kids who don’ excel in school”. The issue of race is mostly irrelevant.
Because all nerds are unpopular. This doesn’t deserve an article, just a Venn diagram.
Great analysis. This looks high enough quality to be picked up by a magazine or newspaper.
The need to dress well and be popular might stem from the fact that their ancestors were not accepted by society and could not dress well.
Also, take into consideration that there were hundreds of years of brain washing involved during slavery and beyond. When Africans arrived here as slaves, they were purposely conditioned to believe they were unintelligent and any that were high reaching faced dire consequences. And this was good for business. This made it easier to keep the human cattle docile.
Another point to make is how welfare facilitated this mentality after slavery. The welfare system screams “You’re not good enough. You need help. You were born this way. You are owed compensation.”
It’s going to take more than a generation or two to cleanse America from its less than stellar history and the band-aids it has used to correct it.
So, did we import all the stupid Africans? No, they came from the same blood and lineage as your current first generation Africans. The only difference is, America imposed a mindset to these earlier people that still trickles down today.
First and second gens of many immigrants are going to naturally excel in a country like the U.S because they have virtually no economic and social barriers compared to the countries that they come from. What did Scarlet say in Gone with the Wind? “As God is my witness, I will never go hungry again.”
At any rate, I am not surprised by these current trends. I am only riddled by the fact that so many people wonder why these trends exist.
African born (Nigerian no less!), mostly American raised here! Stumbled on to your page via reddit (Front page!)
I can mostly relate to what you’ve described as the black nerd experience, there is an overwhelming pre-occupation with appearance within the black culture. But I’m not sure when you went to high school but my experience graduating from a predominantly black urban lower-middle class high school (with a brief stint in a wasp-y elite private school in the UK), was actually quite different .
But first some background:
My parents (Nigerian, fully naturalized Americans) even though they came from extremely poor backgrounds both rose to be extremely educated professionals (one a Hematologist , the other an Architect. ) but they never really pressed much of anything with us beyond working hard at school. My siblings and I all grew up on video games and Saturday morning cartoons, but we were also encouraged to go to the library (hence my current love of reading). We just never felt any additional pressure to be high achievers like our parents were. They did encourage a developed world view so we traveled a lot and their might have been some bias academically to perform well in the math and in sciences (for obvious reasons). Fortunately they were a bit more savvy than the typical Nigerian family and its something they have taught me without really saying it : letter grades and scores are only part of a well rounded individual.
Now when it came to high school unlike my brothers who are college educated and now quite gainfully employed IT nerds, I was a slacker. Much like Anon above I found some stupid sort of amusement in being a smart ass and pissing off teachers. It didn’t help my situation though. In high school what contributed to me being labeled a nerd wasn’t intelligence but my love of subcultures: Video Games, Anime and Electronica. Intelligence overall wasn’t exactly the sole determinant of popularity.
In fact some of the most popular kids were very intelligent high achievers as well groomed charismatic perfectionists that everyone loved. Not to say there weren’t your typical bad seeds who were notorious for doing pretty horrible things.
I’m not sure how old your or any of the people above are and it might have been the school I attended, but intelligence and popularity definately weren’t mutually exclusive.
I can find you a number of ethnically diverse/predominantly minority (I don’t really like the word race) high schools in my area were especially now, where this is case.
You also mentioned that most of the nerds you knew were African or Afro-Caribbean and I agree partially. Yes, for most part, immigrant families high academic achievement is not just a priority, its the culture so I would expect this to be the case. But I also know a ton of African Americans , born and raised, who are extremely talented academically. Most emerging from situations that I have to admit, would have seriously affected my growing up in this country (e.g single or even no parent households).
Merinas van der Lubbe:
” I practically NEVER run into an “African-American” person with any brains. Conversely, I practically NEVER run into a real African who isn’t intellectually superb. It really makes me wonder… did we import all the stupid Africans over here during the slavery era? (I’ve heard Africans actually say that – “We sent you all the bad people” (!!).) ”
That’s a surprisingly misinformed thing to say. I suggest you try looking harder and with a different perspective. One thing I’ve noticed people do (particularly immigrants) is fail to give credit where its due. I’m sure many of those African Americans you ran into might not have excelled academically excelled in other ways. Either through that unusual resourcefulness that pervades black culture or a dedication to another skill or ability. All of this within a country/culture that is a bit hard on people with certain skin colors (understatement).
Indeed; the stupidity, machismo and ignorance characteristic of popular black culture constitute a huge problem. But its only a small component of the overall black experience and anyone paying the least amount of attention would know that.
I’m not sure how coherent my essay has been because there’s so much to be discussed on the subject, but thanks for the great read this morning!
Fascinating article. Thanks a lot for your insight.
I attended a math/science/computer science Magnet program in high school in the Washington D.C. metropolitan area and I definitely noticed the trends you spoke of. In my graduating class out of 100 people in the Magnet program, only one of them was black. Whites and Asians were easily over-represented in the Magnet program. The Magnet program was even trying to actively recruit more minorities, to no avail.
The rest of the school, by contrast, was minority white, with blacks and Latinos making up the majority of the student population. A common “joke” was that if you saw a bunch of white people and Asian people hanging out together, you knew they were in the Magnet program.
I think you just hit the nail on the haed with this one. I am black and a nerd. I have noticed that black families will stress education, but the investment doesn’t correspond to the ‘talk’.
I’m attending Cal State Northridge; an economics and mathematics double major. One of the more frustrating things to see on campus is not finding a black major peer. I don’t think there is another black person that is a math major (note: the student population is 30,000+). Sure, math isn’t a major for everybody, but I find myself seeing that much of the black student population on campus isn’t found in the hard sciences and maths.
“Realistically, I should have used the term ‘African nerds,’ because almost all of the smartest black people I know were either born in Africa or are first-generation Africans.”
THIS STATEMENT IS SO DAMN TRUE! the last two black people I’ve had in any of my classes (one this past spring semester, the other was in the fall 2007 semester), were from Africa! Not African American.
Thank you for the blog! It was a good read.
Dude!! Well Done, You made it to the front page of reddit. Thanks for the read. I was born in Nigeria, and moved to Ireland two years ago. I don’t consider myself quite a nerd despite the fact that other people think I am, but all the same… Well Done!!
Phrases like “black nerd” (or “white nerd”, for that matter) always sound strange to me.
As far as I’m concerned, “nerd” is itself an ethnic group. We are a diverse group, but we seem to share as much of a common set of values and ideals as any other racially or culturally defined ethnicity. We might be doing better if we stopped thinking of ourselves as fringe (”nerd”) members of some other culture (i.e. “black”) and start thinking of ourselves simply as solid members of the Nerd community.
(And I really wish wordpress would stop converting my closing parantheses into “smileys”… )
Thanks for the interesting, very personal article. My observations of “American blacks” and “African blacks,” for lack of better terms, mostly jibe with your own. (But, I was a middle-class white nerd, so my own biases might color my observations; of course, I can’t be sure.)
One thing that has been hinted at but not said explicitly: I suspect that a selection effect is the primary cause of high achievement being so much more common among African-American immigrants their offspring than among “American blacks.” That is, high-intelligence Africans are more likely to emigrate to the U.S. with the “leftovers” remaining behind. OTOH, early American slaves would have been selected for low intelligence.
IQ isn’t even close to 100% heritable, though. Some cultural hypotheses, like yours, are needed to explain the whole phenomenon.
I find this less true for a group of people that you may perhaps dub as super nerds or maybe geniuses where school work and academics took little to no time for these people, but still manage to be the best in their high schools and Universities. The percentage of the average population discussed here becomes extremely small, but these characters may seem to deviate from the model described.
I think this is more than a sub-culture – it is a counter-culture & counter-identification. Let me tell you of my experience.
Many (many) years ago I went to junior high in a school on the D.C. line. There were three distinct groups – the popular(athletic & academic) white kids, the blue collar white kids, and the minority of black kids (this was way before busing). Then there was me…
I was white, weak & nerdy looking but not particularly academic, and poor. I had nuthin’
I was – as I have joked later – the equal opportunity victim. Both the blue-collar white kids and the black kids hassled me (when not fighting each other). Both were merciless with me as they were with their own. Actually this continued in high school. What’s important about the blue-collar kids? In the 60’s they didn’t have to even complete high school to get a job – they got job skills in shop class -and they were white. They could reject academics because they didn’t want to – among other things – be called a “fag”. They identified themselves in such a way to counter the standards that were held up to them as superior but they were still participants in the economy. It was just as much about economic class as anything. When those jobs were lost – they mostly moved away & may have found other blue-collar jobs. Unlike black kids, they may have been called names, made fun of, or beat up if they actually did well in school, they were never accused of trying to be black. Now look at the black kids – what happens if they are not acting their part in this “counter-school” culture – they are “trying to be white”. This goes to the core of their identity – when I suffered for even looking or acting like a nerd I never was completely separated from who I was and treated as a traitor.
The next thing I know from growing up in the sixties is that the assumption that you could be black and get a decent job – no matter what your qualifications were – was false. The same went for where you could live or where you could play. This was the part of the struggle. Certain tactics were used to attempt to overcome these and other aspects of white racism. We may stand back now and say that equal opportunity and even integration was a bad idea for black progress, but at the time something was owed to all the disenfranchised people, and something had to be done… “now”. This was enforced by the government, and became a system in itself. So the focus was different then – and now the grandchildren and great-grandchildren of those black people come from a different history then you.
I find it funny (as an African-American nerd who was popular in HS and college) that many 1st gen Africans try to distance themselves from “American” blacks. I disagree with the rap culture but the way Africans act is still hilarious to me.
I think your analysis is only partially correct ( you only describe a subset of blacks). I have seen the exact opposite in the schools I have attended. You dont know any black nerds who have been living in the US generation after generation, but how many people do you know really ?
There are more black nerds than ever (and I’m not speaking of 1st gen immigrants like you Adewumi). Try going to some of the high ranking schools in the VA,MD area. The thing is, they dont stick out so people dont notice them.
Anyways, I think you’re guilty of the type of stereotyping that I see from many whites. What was the socio-economic background of the blacks you speak of that didnt like to read ? All the black people I know read all the time, so reading self-serving crap like you have written seems to try further propagate memes like the ones you are spreading.
Also jackass, try juxtaposing reading habits in general against your culture bias of supposed knowledge of blacks and then comment on that: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/21/AR2007082101045.html
“The popular kids learned to be popular, and to want to be popular, the same way the nerds learned to be smart, and to want to be smart: from their parents. While the nerds were being trained to get the right answers, the popular kids were being trained to please.”
I disagree smartness has little to do with popularity. It’s what’s given to the world and what’s taken. An alternative view of popularity is socialization, relaxation, standing up for oneself, and a good attitude are core.
http://www.crankdatshitup.com/pages/social_ladders/how_to_be_cool
This was very insightful. It matches with my own (limited) experience. I am a middle-class white nerd who is now a graduate student in mathematics at a large public university, and I’ve taught a number of lower-division college math courses (precalculus and calculus). Just about every black student I’ve had doesn’t spend as much time studying as the courses require. (Note that I’ve only ever had African Americans, never Africans.) Last semester I was a TA for differential equations. I had three black students, call them J., K., and L. In order of skill, they were L., J., and K. And in order of grooming, they were also L., J., and K. All three were in a program for disadvantaged students that required me to give them written midsemester feedback. I told L. that if he was willing to work harder, he would earn the A+ he deserved. (He was really exceptional.) Instead his work dropped from an A to an A-. Why? I know he could have gotten an A+. But I suspect it would have taken away the time he needed to be popular; he would have had to stop hanging out with people and going to parties. For cultural reasons, he couldn’t do that. Whereas the less-talented Chinese girls had cultural reasons for doing exactly that, and so their scores went up.
It’s interesting to compare L. with C., a Hispanic nerd also in that class. Unlike L., C. seemed not to notice popular society. C. groomed himself as well as the middle-class white kids and no more, and as far as I could tell he made no attempt whatsoever to be popular; I’m sure he had friends, but that wasn’t apparent from his behavior in class. So C.’s scores remained at the same (high) level all semester.
I think the root problem is that most African Americans (and Latinos) have a culture that value education as a credential, not education as knowledge: A degree is a sign of success; a more advanced degree is a sign of more success. The actual knowledge gained while pursuing the degree has no value at all. Whereas for me and my family, education is valued because it signals the possession of knowledge.
Unfortunately I think there is a trend in white culture to value the credential and not the knowledge. Students want credit for a course; they tell me that they need to pass so that they can get into the business school. It never occurs to them that I can’t pass them if they don’t know what they’re doing.
I’ve heard a theory describing stereotypes of “nerd culture” as an exaggerated race consciousness, so-called “hyper-whiteness.” Under this theory, there aren’t (many) black nerds for the same reason there aren’t (many) white Shintoists–it’s simply not part of their cultural heritage. In other words, nerds are not a category that truly transcends race.
Thank you for this Post! I too am a Black Nerd From Philadelphia. My parents though are from North carolina. Since My father was “Athletic” but my mother was “Academic” I had the best of both worlds but master of none. I turned down my scholarship to help provide for my family once my step-father left. I suppose that’s another dynamic that’s added to the conflicted black nerd: A Nuclear Family with caring parents. It appears your parents cared enough to make sure you studied and excelled. I’m happy for you…
An interesting article. I’ve heard many of your points before (nerds are often unpopular, the divide is even greater among blacks, etc), but none of them align with my own personal experience. As a black American whose family has been in the US for many generations, I am considered a nerd by most of my friends (myself included), but I have always enjoyed a fairly high degree of popularity. I read voraciously throughout my life, excelled in math and science, and recently graduated from Stanford with a Computer Science degree, and yet I have always had plenty of friends from all walks of life. I think the fact that I was never condescending towards my “non-nerdy” peers may have helped. I have friends who are positively brilliant and others who aren’t quite so sharp. Either way they’re people, and I treat them with respect and kindness. So far in life this attitude has worked pretty well for me, and the few people that do shun me for being “too smart” or “too nerdy” aren’t worth being friends with anyways.
As a ‘black nerd’ and also an identical twin, I can attest to the problem of ‘black socialization’ (mainly the learned behaviors that teach black youth that achievement, intelligence, and education are undesirable) being a major roadblock to achievement for young blacks. The first time I really recognized this was sixth grade, when my twin brother was far more quickly indoctrinated into the ‘black’ subculture than I was. Our grade was split into two sections that only interacted at recess and lunch time. We were divided into these sections and in this separation we became part of different social groups and presumably learned different behaviors. At the time I was not terribly concerned with my appearance, and he was. I would rather ask “why do I need an expensive new pair of shoes?” than go buy them, but I was included on such shopping trips because we were twins. Prior to the sixth grade (in other words, prior to middle school — where we came upon a more mature, better defined set of social systems) we had generally received more equal marks in school. These days, as college graduates (he with a double major and me going on to pursue graduate studies), he and I both reflect on that period of time as a very important one. We worry about our younger brother who has not display the same love of learning. One can never be sure, but it seems like people are twice as ready to close a door to young black men if they don’t have outstanding credentials. On the flipside though, my experiences thus far in life have shown me that young black men with excellent credentials can get a few fortunate breaks.
Excellent post! Very clear and lucid.
I have a question, however. Excuse me if the question sounds naive as I’m white and whatever I even think I know about black/African/African-American culture comes from anecdotal sources and heavy filtering of media sources.
How much influence do you think the “don’t be like whitey” effect has on the “black nerd”?
What I’ve gathered through my various information sources is it seems in some, if not many, communities there seems to be an obsession with being black (and via proximity, “not be white”), and because white people still hold a racial majority, academic success could be construed as a “white thing” (I have no idea why, if anything academic success could be construed as an Asian thing).
Do you think this has any bearing on any particular communities you are familiar with? Or should go put some Public Enemy back on my play list and feel embarrassed for being stupid?
well thought-out and composed post. as a father of three, i’m reminded to not only speak about the value of education over entertainment, but to also model it. i myself, although an overachiever in many respects, have been mired in mediocrity for most of my adult life. the desire to excel has always been present, but not the motivation. my greatest fear is transmitting this lack of self-confidence to my children.
I think it’s interesting that you point out that you are first-generation African. I believe the experience of slavery, of being systematically put down by a larger group, leaves deep scars.
The whole “urban black culture” (which actually is a misnomer) is about a self-perpetuating myth of stereotyping. For me, hip-hop artists are the epitomy of stupid. Some jazz musicians, OTOH, are clearly on genius-level. But Jazz is hard, maths is hard, being a gangster…not so hard. Very easy to reach for a gun a resort to brute-force. Anyone can do that, as long as he sets himself to it.
Perhaps Africans don’t feel that and hence don’t feel this urge to overcompensate (at least that is what looks to me).
Just a thought I want to add. I think black nerds ought to get filthy rich, with their start ups, tech firms, whatever.
That’ll do it. That’ll bring social change. And I am not being cynical. I think it’s about role models.
Interesting article.
I think you touched on topics that have already been way over spoken for.
But i think society we need to do some sort of analyisis of “popularity of nerds” over time.
I can assure you nerds are more popular (to me popular means how integrated you are to the general society (ie: getting dates with the hot girls…just my opinion)).
Now adays i see kinda dorky/nerdy guys going out with some pretty hot non-nerdy girls.
As long as nerds make more money they will do better socially.
But i think your wrong about popularity-i believe if you make the investment to be popular you will become more popular.
Its the same thing as being smart-if you put the effort into learning and improving yourself overtime you will.
when i was in jr high going into high school, we had to take an IQ test so they could determine placement. on my first test i was shown to have a 172 IQ. of course, this being rural mississippi, i was tested again, and shown to have a 180 IQ. was promptly placed into gifted classes, but later when it came time to talk to our schools guidance counselor about after high school options, i was told to get a trade…ATRADE FOR SOMEONE WITH A 180 IQ.
I also have a theory for the reason that other people come here and excell; they come here from somewhere else. they come with the knowledge of what intelligence and education means in the the short and long terms. i was lucky, I and my 4 sisters had two loving and very strict parents who required us to do our best. which stays with me to this day.
at present, i create recursive long form improvisational music and create interactive performance spaces. I have quite a few projects that concern black intellectuallism, and i will definitely keep you in the loop.
Onyx Ashanti
Good article. Very good observation that we Latins and Blacks tend to spend too much on outward appearance. Though this is satire, this article from the Onion, hits the nail right on the head:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33490
I think that since most Latins and Blacks tend to come from disadvantaged backgrounds, there is an inherent insecurity that runs through our races. There’s this attitude of “Look I can’t possibly be poor, look at my car and rims, and shoes and name brand clothes! I must be a high roller if I can spend a disproportionate amount of my disposable income on such frivolities!”
The irony of the situation though, is that nowadays with credit and financing the way it is, fancy cars and apparel have become so ubiquitous, that when I see a very young person in such wares, I tend to see that individual as someone with a poor sense of financial planning. Let’s be honest here, how would someone so young(black, latin or white) legitimately afford such an expensive car without some sort of very lenient financing plan.
Granted there are exceptions, but by and large it is safe to say these folk have gotten themselves into a lifestyle they really cannot afford through the use of credit. Time was only the very successful could afford pricey luxury cars. Now since we all can “afford it”, it kind of defeats the purpose for those people who buy them to show off.
Great stuff. Enjoyed it.
I think the issues of popularity and intelligence are affected by a few factors.
Racism to some degree affects the importance of intellect. This depends on what part of the U.S. or Canada you live. (where I grew up). Racism can affect family incomes and the perception of the value of participating in mainstream culture. Obviously lower incomes create more pressure to earn money and give less opportunity to seek further education.
The rap culture doesn’t show the hard work and low success rate of being a celebrity. The only parts it shows are the easy women and money. And it suggests that being tough, wearing expensive looking clothing and jewelry, and driving a car with added features will get you these things.
A lot of people are saying I see smart Black Africans and stupid Black Americans, but they are oversimplifying the situation. If you meet someone who has immigrated to the U.S. then you’re talking to someone who was willing to save their money, travel, and follow the process to live and work in the U.S. Regardless of color, these people must have some level of intellect and drive above the norm. It’s not that American’s are necessarily uneducated or lazy, it’s that those who immigrate are often educated and hard working.
Great article. I would love to read more.
I am working to start a non-profit vo-tech software academy. The idea is that students would be paid a stipend to learn using techniques based on Agile methodologies. It seems to me that it should be possible to learn software skills without paying $100,000 and investing four years. I’d like to accelerate learning in the same ways that Agile techniques accelerate development. Would you be interested in this project or know people who would?
this is yet another ignorant attempt to blame race for societal problems. the problem you describe is one of economic origin, not race. poor whites are exactly the same.
Very interesting article. I have to say that the only thing harder than being a black nerd is being a BNW (Black Nerd Woman)!
This reminds me of John Mcwhorter’s book, ‘Losing the Race.’ He touches on the very same issue.
And it jibes with my experiences as a white American. Blacks from Africa and other parts of the world have much more respect for education than blacks from America.
What is the solution?
Thanks David for bringing this interesting discussion to light. I am a 5+ generation African American who is currently an engineering PhD student at the University of Michigan and received my bachelors in math. Though this article provides several excellent points through observation, this is mainly an excersize in personal experience. The author through no fault of his own has not encountered any non 1st or 2nd generational black american nerds, but there are many out there. It certainly is difficult for black nerds to become popular, but I myself and and several friends over the years have shown a strong desire to gain knowledge and attain high marks yet were able to emerge with a nice level of popularity in the black culture. It is true that conspicuous concern for grades or immersion into cultures such as anime or non-hiphop music are not boons for popularity in the black culture. Yet, as long as a black individual is attuned to the interests of other blacks as well, popularity does not have to be mutually exclusive to nerdy fare. A previous commenter referred to balancing nerdy activities with more popular activities, and he makes a great point. It is an even more tenuous balancing act for a smart black guy, but it is done all the time. Often what I have found that makes a black individual unpopular is if they have a meek or less confident demeanor about themselves. Those who are confident (or carry themselves as though they are confident) are less likely to be labeled as a “lame” (lame and other phrases replace nerd, which is not used often in the black culture). I’ve seen many smart friends avoid this lame tag. Some however cannot avoid being labeled. This is just another case where generalized statements (e.g. “I never meet smart blacks” or “I don’t know any smart blacks who are popular”..) can be broken open to show that all is needed is more exposure to the outside world or for individuals to pay closer attention. I certainly am not happy with the current counter-productive trend my culture has taken. But, keep in mind that there are those such as my friends and I who have maintained the grades and even touched the fringe of nerdiness, but emerged popular.
Thanks to all who have left very insightful comments. I’ve had some internet trouble today (big lightning storm early this morning wiped out my access) and have not been able to respond to each commenter, but will try to do so later.
If it’s any consolation, although I only know two black nerds that I can think of off the top of my head – a few more if you count people I used to know – they’re both very popular people within the worlds of nerd-dom. Being popular among nerds is not the same thing as being popular, period, but hey, it’s something.
One thing that I have noticed when I was in school, and now as an adult, is that when I socialise the biggest thing working against me is compatability of conversational subject material and entertainment activities. Personally I like to talk about books I have read, thier authors, the times and places surrounding them, and the social/philosophical commentary that lies within them. I also do this with everything I like be it movies, tradition art, or something much more based on reality. I find that most people I meet (by no means all) gennerally don’t seem to get that “into” the subject material as I do.
So When I discuss say the reasons I feel make “The Brothers Karamozov” one of the best novels ever written not only is it rare that someone has read it but it is also rare that there is someone there that can give a conversational return on the thoughts that underline the story that are pertenant wether you have read the book or not.
I mention my favorite movies, most people have never seen nor heard of them. The music I like is gennerally not well known. The modern artists I follow the work of tend to either be unknown to or offend the people I meet. (usually I find the offence is felt due to a misunderstanding, often what translates as mockery of something they hold dear is actually a statment that they would agree with if presented in a manner they were used to.)
I am not sure of why this is, though I do have some vague ideas as to why, and I will not get into them because I haven’t placed any rigor on the subject of why, but this is often why I end up quietly observing everyone else, or in a corner with a small portion of said population after a couple hours have passed.
I just dont see the passion and knowledge of subjects, even those I do not personaly like, that pulls me into listening and responding to people. I just feel, maybe unjustly, that the people there are just there to view and be viewed not to be adressed and absorbed, so-to-speak.
One example that often goes against this observation is sports. I find many people passionate about some sport or another who have in-depth knowledge of the sport and express some pretty heavy minded ideas through the subject (such as the merits of being a sports icon and the responsibilities held to a person in such a position to be a good role modle, and the ethics that exsist in sports and how they transulate to the real world). This passion however brings me to listen, to question, and to prod the subject, even though I have very selective tastes in sports.
If only half such energy was spent on everything that makes up the fabric of said, generalised, and anonymous personality.
My older brother and sister taught me to read when I was very little, and we didn’t play with action figures or watch Barney, we read books, practiced flash cards, and did word problems with my dad. For my next door neighbors, also Africans, they never owned a video game system, didn’t watch much TV, while instead were encouraged to do mathematics, science, and reading from an early age — as both hobby and school.
My father did the same thing when I was very young…
He would quiz me on history, politics, geography, the military, science (mainly aerospace), and forced me to read the paper. Yeah I watched cartoons and played with toys, played a lot of video games, but I spent I even more time watching nature shows and military documentaries, in fact that is all I will watch on TV now.
I was spouting stuff off at 4 that I had no idea about. (I did not learn who Casper Weinberger was or what he did until I was 12, but I knew the name and said it several times before hand. ???)
I tired my hand at sports, was mediocre at basketball in middleschool, football and wrestling in High School, and stopped playing after half a season in College. My desire has always been in history, politics, writing, and most importantly in aerospace. Got clowned and picked on in school because I liked such things, but also learned to shoot of my mouth as well.
Being a black male, the most pressure you will ever face in this society comes from your peers (usually other black boys and girls.) If you do not act like a “dummy”, thug, or athlete (like everyone else) you will be attacked and marginalized. And even if you fight back, kick ass, put people down, and make examples out of people (I am speaking from personal experience) then as long as you “act” not in a stereotypical manner, they will still keep coming, in many cases the same cats come back for another ass beating…
So at the end of all this. Did the girls really come chasing after you?
Interesting read. I’d just like to add my thoughts.
It’s human nature to classify, and spread memes; these concepts are the root of stereotypes. Stop. All human brains work similarly with input producing output. Human intelligence is shaped by environment and education. It doesn’t matter if you are black, white, red, yellow, or brown… you are what you consume; culturally and intellectually. I think cultural conditioning precludes intellectual rewards; if true, I ask does there need to be a change, and if so, what needs to change?
Nigerian to Nigerian, I gotta applaud you for taking the time to write this article.
I really enjoyed it. You should organize it into chapters, and distribute it somehow (physically). You’d be amazed at how many people (your target audience included) won’t read anything longer than 3 lines. And even those 3 lines must be accompanied by a picture of Beyonce or Flavor Flav. So I don’t know what you can do to get black people to read it, but you gotta try.
I wrote a similar article a few days ago… it’s in that link that I posted here.
We are witnessing the slow painful death of our race. I just hope my daughter rises above the mediocre.
I guess, every commenter is nerd…
How about Asian nerds?
Very interesting read, and I can’t say I agree with some of the comments.
Oh, check out Loren Feldman’s take on why there are no black Bloggers:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/internet/social_network/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=208803264
Such ignorance, being a black nerd from NYC I grew up with AA nerds all my life, from elementary school to high school, from friends who went to private schools like Dalton, to schools like Bronx Science, Brooklyn Tech and Stuyvesant, to A.Phillip Randolph High on City college campus. Randolph when I went was PRIMARILY minority, with about sixty percent of the students being black. It was the only highschool ive ever heard of that had a longer class schedule than any other school in the city because we had one extra course per day. We also had SAT preparation classes, college courses, and Advanced Placement courses, again classes Ive never heard about coming from a mixed school in the Bronx, (Christopher Colombus H.S.)
I was a nerd because I liked to be, I was a videogame/technology guy, and wanted to be a game designer one day. My friends had similar goals, and for the most part we either acheived them, or are achieving them right now. We are all over the place. It aint hard to find african american nerds in NYC. L.A. or Atlanta (cough cough, Fulton County)
Whoo hooo us poor African Americans, why we’s just so stupid, even though the OP could just pick up magazines like Black Enterprise, research business groups like the all black venture capitalist companies, and even look into upcoming African American game companies like ea.research, we get more ignorance as usual.
and to the fool that said its all about role models, they are out there, guys like Dick Parsons, Joseph Saulter and the like, but again, its way easier to just call us dumb and throw us under the bus instead of actually doing the research and the footwork.
Not to be mean here but if Africans were so great, why cant they fix the problems in their own country? Why is Ghana inviting African Americans over to help fix the problem. I mean hey you guys are soooo intelligent, or is that intelligence gained once you get on the boat to America? Thing is we all have our problems no question, but for every poor African American, there is a Puffy, Bill Cosby, Oprah, Farrah Grey, Joseph Saulter and many more. It sure be nice to see more Africans on that list that have that kind of influence on the world.
Hey, I gotta agree with you. Although I do know a few non-first generation Americans who fit the nerd description, I have noticed that it still holds that immigrants have the ethos to strive. I definitely understand what you are saying, especially as I am a first generation son from Eritrean immigrant parents.
What is interesting is Thomas Friedman noted this in his book, The World is Flat. Anyway, props for putting your ideas out there in such lucid terms. Thank you,
Ummm… we popular. LOL
Those are nice points Maquiame’. I think you are vilifying the 1st and 2nd generation AAs that have spoken out though. I agree with you that they possibly are ignorant of or unexposed to a segment of our community that allows for fostering black nerds (i.e. better educated pockets of the black population that are more prevalent in cities such as D.C., Atlanta, New York etc). As you educate those unaware, remember that one of the biggest issues as a community we face are the remnants of the divide and conquer tactics used on us blacks in the 400 years we’ve been on this continent. Attacking members of our community, even when you disagree with them, only continues these unacceptable divisions.
Nerds are everywhere. I like the post. Keep blogging! You got a new subscriber.
Then they shouldnt make such stupid assumptions, I mean not to be crass but observing the nerd population in Buttfuck, Indiana does not speak for the entire population at large. Black nerds are all over the place nowadays from all nerd young black male gaming managment companies like Empire Arcadia (they have a website, had an MTV show, been on G4 TV, Wired Magazine, etc) I mean these guys arent hard to find. I can throw down more names, Dwayne McDuffie, Reginald Hudlin, Aaron McGruder and so many more. How hard is it to take a trip to downtown manhattan to Neutral Grounds on a Saturday evening?
I may be coming harsh but please there is no excuse for laziness, especially when it comes to us with such great intellect. *cough cough*. How hard is it to go to sites like blacksuperhero.com which is a mecca for BlackNerds.
Maquiame,
I’ve lived in Camden, NJ, Baltimore, MD, Colorado Springs, CO, as well as a few cities in other countries.
All have very significant black populations.
Sure, I grew up in a town that’s not that big, in comparison with say, New York City, where you live outside of, but I think you’re taking my comments the wrong way.
It doesn’t help me in any way for blacks at large in the US to be looked down upon, it’s not as if a random stranger is going to realize I’m first-generation American/ African, and not black.
In fact, I’m probably one of the only people I know that can recognize an African/1st-gen African from an American Black on sight.
We are ALL in the same boat, and I was simply highlighting the struggles of black people, African or American blacks.
Also, I find it interesting that all those here who left controversial comments did not fill in their emails — why not identify yourself so we can continue discussion via email? I’ve responded to about 40 to 50 commenters here directly via email to continue the discussion because lots have interesting things to say.
BTW, I read Black Enterprise pretty regularly — my dad had a subscription ever since he launched a Tech/software company and I started reading it months ago.
> In fact, I’m probably one of the only people I know that can recognize an African/1st-gen African from an American Black on sight.
I can recognize them on sight about 50% of the time, and on sound (by their accent) ~100% of the time.
Andrew, maybe it’s more prevalent than I thought — but most of the black people I know don’t know the different, so I (wrongly) assumed that being able to identify Africans/1st-gen Africans was something uncommon in non-Africans.
I’ve also spent enough time around Koreans, Japanese, Chinese and other East Asians to be able to correctly identify nationality probably 3 out of 4.
Any other comments/thoughts you had on this post?
What an interesting post! and some of the comments are also interesting in their extremes.
There is a big problem with/about education among black Americans. So many of us don’t want to admit this or try to make changes so that those coming up behind us have better options. Why? I think about this all the time. Why this pretense that we have no control over how black children are educated, both in the home and at school? Why this pretense that there is a serious disconnect towards education among many of our youth?
Hi David.
Thank you for your post.
When criticizing/observing folks its important to think about the system in which they exist.
I think it is REALLY easy to say “the black kids don’t want to learn, they just want to….” As oppose to looking at the social forces that perpetuate and benefit from their “failure” as well.
I noticed three things.
The African experience, the African American experience is arguably different, when it comes to class and education.
If Blacks do spend more ON “stuff” then the next question is WHY?
Also, there are class distinctions that
need to be made as well, as they pertain to school and OUR history of being educated properly, and I mean, being educated while keeping our humanity and dignity in tact.
Learning is a spiritual process.
Check out the follow
bell hooks “Teaching to Transgress” on how learning is a emotional experience.
John Ogbu on the “academic failure” of Black middle class children.
Geoff Canada “Fist Stick Knife Gun”
I am going to write about this this week as well.
David,
Truly its a pleasure to read your entry, I am originally from Somalia so I can relate to the differences in America’s value on education vs. other countries. Your intellectual honesty makes your work intellectually interesting. I must say though my friend that in such a racially defined society that some would misconstrue what you are getting at for their own little squabbles. Best of luck to you my friend.
Hassan
Hey David,
As one of the elusive Black American nerds you do not know of, I can tell you that the experiences of alienation and isolation are VERY painful, and do not differ that much from the experiences of nerds of other groups… There is actually a book on this issue written by famous Black male educator Jawanza Kunjufu. He chronicles the challenge of black teens choosing to be smart or nerdy over the social pressures and image of Black=Cool in American society.
So, just to let you know, We are here, we do exist.
I went to a multicultural upper middle class school in the South (where most blacks are concentrated – hence increasing the likelihood of finding these phantom Black folks called Black American nerds) that has produced BLACK pilots, doctors, attorneys, PhDs, artists, entreprenuers and other professionals who were once…NERDS
powerful stuff. check out http://www.wundergrad.com. it seem new but looks like it deals with this kind of stuff, you know, nerds.
i keep on comming back to this article. this is a cool article. it’s nice to know that people all across the world experience similar things.
Well done to you David for committing your thoughts on this subject to your blog.
As a geek/nerd of Jamaican parentage, most of my co-students at university at post-graduate level were of predominantly West African parentage. Why the dearth of academically inclined Black Britons? The answer lies in culture, social class and expectation.
Caribbeans when they entered the UK in the 1940s were overwhelming working class, while the Nigerians and Ghanaians who came slightly later were mostly middle class in their outlook, hence like the certain Asian and Jewish communities tend to seek and value education.
It must be noted that both African American and Caribbean peoples experienced the psychological damage of the heritage of slavery were being intellectual, symbolic and abstract was discouraged and even punished. (See the works of Dr. Amos Wilson)
Culture ,that is the mass culture of consumption, deeply affects individual and collective perceptions. The images of Black people in the media still lend colour to the idea that we are a primarily ‘ physical and neuromotor ‘ type rather than ‘ cerebral/intellectual ‘ group like Jewish and Asian groups. Just look at MTV for example.
The geek/nerd type is tolerated in many Asian cultures and among Jews it appears almost encouraged. The Jewish contingent in physics, medicine and even the MIT hacking culture of the 1970s was/is particularly influential. This influence is also out of all proportion to their numbers. These cultures have for millenia placed a high premium on learning and scholarship. Being of Jamaican origin, this is notably absent from the mass culture, though there are highly educated Jamaicans in UK, USA and Canada. They are just not that visible.
If Black people wish to take there place in the twenty first century it will need to tolerate geeks, nerds, weirdos and anoraks better than it does now. And we indeed have such people, such as Prof. Shirley Jackson, Prof. Sylvester Gates both physicists and many others. You hardly see these persons in the media. On the other hand images of rappers, athletes, entertainers and criminals abound.
We need images of the former type to be burnt into the collective consciousness and last for centuries.
Technology will win prosperity and even future wars ( I hope we have less of those). The last World War was won by boys and girls in unfashionable pullovers at Bletchley Park and MIT, not cool bling-obsessed illiterates. Geeks for good or for ill win wars.
As for Africa, if Africa wants high-technology it needs freedom. Freedom from the primate politics that finds expression in the phenomenon of the ‘Bigman’. In such an authoritarian millieu, it is doubtful whether the free exchange of ideas and the toleration of the geek/nerd type can take root there in its present state. Without this freedom of thought and access to knowledge -, technology dies.
have to agree with my learned friend and college Mr Johnson, as a people we have to embrace the geek/nerd. Without he or she we cannot progress as a race or what God intended us to be (this is directed to our religious friends)
On the issue raised I myself am a 1st generation African in the UK and have noticed that children of 2nd and 3rd generation afro Caribbean’s have fallen into the ‘disease’ that is the MTV bling culture. This generation has put the pursuit of 15minutes of fame and celebrity ahead of the betterment of one’s self and the progress of humanity.
Some people will call this stupid or self genocide, if that’s a term you all will permit me to use. I would call it a moral breakdown of our once proud and rich culture, eroded by money grabbing whores and our new slave masters, and we all know they are not always white. The difference this time is that we willingly allow ourselves to be enslaved by this bastardised sub-culture. This is far from cool it’s an insult to those that won wars so we can have a future.
David:
I thank you for your article. And I agree with much of it. However, there are many things I do not agree with.
I believe there are many “Black nerds” as you call them. I attended Howard University for undergraduate, one of the most prominent Historically Black Colleges and Universities in the world, and one of the preeminent schools in the US. Many of our nations Black leaders have come from schools like Howard, Spelman, Morehouse, Fisk, Hampton, Tuskeegee and the Ivy Leagues.
Your points about intelligent, scholarly Blacks being called nerds is an unfortunate part of our ignorance as Blacks.
However, having attended Howard and an Ivy League graduate school, I have come to realize that there is absolutely a place for intelligent Blacks, and that few of these people really are “nerds.” Many were very on par with fashion, books, current events, and the latest dances. Yet they still made time for studying. Many of my friends from Howard are now or en route to becoming MD’s, Attorneys, Ph.D’s, Dentists, and other professionals.
Some people who are called nerds allow this to affect their self-esteem. When I have children, I hope that I teach them the value of being intelligent and most important, SELF-ASSURED. Confidence is a critical part of success. When you are finished with school and have to work, you must have confidence to succeed, not just natural intelligence. Learning how to socialize with and work with others is very important to success in life.
And “nerds” run the world. Who doesn’t want to be affiliated with the Bill Gates, Oprah’s, Barack Obama’s and other highly intelligent, successful people? So, if I had to choose (which luckily I didn’t), I would always choose intelligence.
Some nerds also could improve their social skills. When I think of someone who is a nerd, what makes them such is the fact that they are socially inept, not just the fact that they are intelligent. Barack Obama is intelligent, but doesn’t seem “nerdy,” whereas Bill Gates seems “nerdy.” Do you understand what I mean? I hope so.